I wrote that post in the early days of my blog, when it was all about our experiences of newly arriving in America, spotting the differences, picking them up and analysing them, turning them this way and that way in words, trying to make best sense of them, enjoying some of them, lamenting others. While they were still differences.
That post was about a difference in the way that adults expect children to relate to them. It struck me that in America, children are drawn into a conversation with an adult in a more genuine way. I think in the UK, when two parents meet with children in tow, they will start by questioning the children, but it's usually fairly cursory, and everyone expects the conversation to move quickly on to the point where just the parents are engaging, and the children are standing listening. I know we've come a long way since the days when children were expected to be seen and not heard, but even so, when was the last time you asked a child not your own "How was your week-end?" and expected them to say anything other than "Good, thank you"? You don't really expect the child (and we're talking quite young children here, primary school age) to give you more than perhaps one fact about the week-end. You might have a quick dialogue about a trip or an event, but that would be all. You certainly don't expect them to reply "Good, thank you, and how was yours?"
That's the nub of it. This side of the Atlantic, children are questioned, and they reply. We don't then expect them to do the questioning. That's an adult role.
That was the thing I noticed when we first arrived in America. I would say "How are you?" to a child, and they would say it right back. And then sometimes, they'd even ask more questions.
"How are you, Little Johnny?"
"I'm good, and how are you, Mrs Manhattan?"
(Hiding surprise) "I'm good too, thanks."
"How was your week-end?"
(Consciously having to lower eyebrows) "It was fine thanks."
"Did you do anything nice?"
(Whoa...) "Um, well, I took the car to the service centre, and I did a bit of shopping. Otherwise we were just hanging out really. What about you?" (Let's get back to ME asking the questions here).
I wondered if it reflected an underlying difference in attitude. Do we Brits see children as children, whereas the Americans see them as little adults? I think that's probably taking it too far, but perhaps we Brits do have a child-speak, a way of conversing with children, that is fundamentally to do with us doing the talking, and them doing the polite replies. I was struck by the confidence with which a school child would be asking me about myself. Sometimes it came across as bumptiousness, and definitely at first it felt like a pleasantry too far! I'd be anticipating that the mother would laughingly interrupt the conversation, and steer it back to herself and me, but they didn't seem to. They let the child chatter on. Then I came to enjoy it. Why on earth shouldn't an individual converse on an equal footing, just because they are a different age to you? So long as it's respectfully done.
As I mentioned, this all came flooding back to me at a parents' evening. I was talking to 16-yo's tutor, and she said that one thing she really liked about him was that he would talk to her as if she was a person too. "Most of the pupils", she said, "will just answer your questions, but 16-yo will ask me how I am, and he'll ask as if he really means it, and wants to know."
"That's what living in America does for your children", I replied. Inwardly I smiled, at the thought of those small primary children, out there on the Great Plains, who taught me and my son that it's ok for children to converse too.
Meanwhile, these cartoons aren't completely relevant, but they did make me laugh while I was googling "cartoon about kids' conversation".
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It's not something I've particularly noticed - although I do think that American children tend to be more confident generally, so maybe this makes them more confident about speaking to adults. One thing I have noticed is that they are more scared of their teachers here than in America - as in, not terrified, but know that they can't get away with cheekiness. I'm going to watch more closely now you've mentioned it.
ReplyDeleteI will try not to take up too much space here -
ReplyDeleteI think you're right overall, although I have met a few American kids who were crippling shy; that's not the norm though. People in the UK have always said that they loved my kids' ease and confidence when dumped into a new situation when we visit every year. I used to assume it was just my kids but it probably is the culture here. American kids are definitely not told not to interrupt as much as in the UK. Unfortunately, they are also allowed to interrupt a lot more than I think is appropriate too. I quite often find myself talking to a parent who turns to their interrupting child in the middle of my sentence and converse with the child. You can literally be left standing with your mouth open, half way through a word. The concept of reminding them that you're already talking to someone else isn't apparent here - unless it's another non-American parent.
Coincidentally, my oldest (now almost 21) has just met an old college friend of mine for coffee in Europe; apparently they chatted for two hours. Oh yes, if there's one thing that American kids know how to do it's chat!
"cripplingly" - if that's a word
ReplyDeleteFunnily enough, I find children in Britain are seen as children until about the age of four. Then they are 'grown up' and 'so ready' for long school days, homework and sitting exams. I think there is a weird form of adultification going on without taking children seriously.
ReplyDeleteThe relationship is very different, as you point out. It's one of those elements that isn't widely understood, or even known about in the UK (conversely I've met some Americans who seem to believe that all English people are educated at public schools like Eton). My feelings are more mixed than yours, however, I think there are negatives as well positives to both the American and UK approach.
ReplyDeleteI can find it pretty difficult sometimes, to be honest, having an American stepdaughter. It is almost a role reversal. In the UK, the child is definitely at the bottom of the hierarchy, whereas to some extent, in the US the family actually acts according to the needs of the child. It can feel almost absurd to my stoical north of England self at times that the kids call the shots.
US culture gives the kid a greater confidence, and like you say - the children tend to see themselves and their needs as important, which alters their status in relation to adults. There are a lot of merits in that, don't get me wrong, especially in regard to aspiration.
Something like The Royle Family, where the youngest kid is a dog's body who has to go to the shop for errands for other (older) family members is an exaggeration for comic effect, but still so very British. The concept is kind of alien to typical American culture.
I do think though that the downside of the US approach is that for some people, a minority, the child-centric approach seems to breed a strong selfishness and sense of entitlement, where their personal needs are more important than everybody else's.
The closest European culture to the US, when it comes to kids, is not the protestant Northern countries like Britain and Germany, but probably Italy, where the kids are treated like little adults.
I'm probably wondering off point a little, but it's an interesting phenomenon. It also has to be said the famous British sense of social awkwardness is likely bred into us at childhood. We can't compete with many nationalities for social ease! :-)
Interesting, because we are known for social awkwardness, but also for being great conversationalists. Kind of a contradiction.
DeleteYes, we are great with words, but socially awkward. Maybe everything gets channeled into the words, as we don't use as much emotion or physical gestures as other cultures when we communicate?
DeleteCommunication seems way more complex in Britain. People often say one thing, but mean something entirely different. You have to have code-breaking skills. Americans are generally more straightforward (Maybe because those early protestant settlers valued plain-speaking? Maybe because of the huge German influence?)
@Paul - it's definitely more kid-centric here in the USA and causes problems in some respects. Even things like where to eat ('cause eating out is a lot more common and not just a treat) or where to go on vacation can get bogged down because of the children's input. I even went to a friend's 40th a few years ago that was totally geared to kids. Held in a big kid-gym with children's activities and games. The only nod to the parental aspect was a cooler full of beers!
DeleteI think, as with everything in a culture as diverse (and enormous) as American culture, it's hard to generalize. Certainly, as American parents, we've raised our sons to learn to look people in the eye, shake hands, speak clearly, and hold a polite conversation. In fact, (especially because we have boys, who - at least in the USA - seem to get away with being sort of monosyllabic or awkward for much longer before people consider it to be a problem) it's often been remarked upon by people who meet them - both Americans and others. On the other hand, we also brought up our children with the understanding that adult conversations (and adult needs in general) take precedence over children's conversations/needs (unless they are on fire or severely injured.) I think it also depends on where you live. MrL and I (he is a Deep Southerner, I am a Canadian/New Englander) found that, when we moved to Arizona,from the East Coast, all of the parents were called by their first names, and the child/adult interactions were much more informal than what we had been used to - we had many Californians for neighbors, and I always assumed that it was more of a West Coast thing. I struggled against my kids calling adults 'Doug' and 'Christine' for years. Just about the time I broke down (5 years or so in) we packed up and moved to Texas, where every adult was not only 'Mr' or "Mrs.' but also 'Yes Ma'am' and "No Sir" and more traditional expectations (parents are in charge and children Do What They're Told) prevailed.
ReplyDeleteVery good point. This can vary from one region to another, I'm sure.
DeleteA subject the vicar and I have been pondering much of late since many children I know aren't even trained to make eye contact and return a greeting. I've been trying to school mine in asking questions, but it all goes wrong when they are shy or embarrassed. I think a lot of kids find the attentions of adults they don't know too well excrutiating. Perhaps because we always ask 'How's school?'!
ReplyDeleteI hadn't really thought about it until I read your post but you are right. I think British kids aren't encouraged to speak or ask questions back to adults. I try and encourage my children to do that but also find myself reprimanding my kids when they say inappropriate things. For example, this morning as we walked into school one of my son's teachers said: Hi Jamie. And his reply was: ' Oh, hi' said in a grunt. I then told him off and said the correct response was 'Morning Miss whatsername'....
ReplyDeleteI will endeavour to ask kids more questions and engage them in conversations now.